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Thoughts on Growth from a Newbie
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Post by Nidus Fetch on Apr 7, 2017 15:53:01 GMT -6
I have been spending a lot of time looking at the power level system since I joined up. A majority of that time was spent wondering, and calculating, how long it would take for myself -or any other newbie, for that matter- to catch up to the more seasoned players on the site. It did not seem like it would be an unreasonable endeavor until I saw how characters were treated upon creation before I joined.
This is not an insult to the site or its members, so please do not see it like that. But when the strongest person we have on the site started with a power level that would take roughly THIRTY-NINE WEEKS to reach with the Saiyan racial bonus on training, you realize there is a very unpleasant disparity.
The system itself seems perfect, but only when everyone actually experiences it the same way. As it is now, I see very little reason to attempt to join the game, and this is an issue that is likely to be faced with anyone else looking at the site as well.
I see the problem had been addressed in the new rules on PL gain not long ago. I do not think this fix will be ample, however.
While I know this means very little to anyone as no one knows me around here, please consider this as legitimate feedback on the site's system. As a new player, coming in and catching up looks near impossible.
Thank you for your time,
Nidus.
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Limax
Hermit
I am filled with Determination
Posts: 475
Power Level: 112,360
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Post by Limax on Apr 7, 2017 17:58:36 GMT -6
Well I'm not the strongest on the site, but I'm pretty darn close and I'd like to just mention that I started at 300 PL. Just like any other new member, and I joined in December or January? I saw getting up to the seasoned people as a bit of a challenge and I fought a lot. I made it an active mission to be active and fight a lot of stronger people to propel myself forward faster. I've even skipped a lot of my weekly training sessions. So I think you are overestimating on how long it takes to get to the top. And then keep in mind that most people are not in that top tier either. There are plenty that are around 1kish PL. And another group around 5kish. It's a grind for sure, but it should be a grind to get to be in the top 5ish on the site. Don't you think? And if you plan to get there simply through weekly training threads, then honestly you won't make it ever because everyone else is going to be getting stronger as well. The experience nerf to everyone except those challenging people twice their PL I think is a great change that will make it easier to catch up. A lot easier than when I did it and everyone was gaining at the same rate I was per fight. Though admittedly that was pre nerf. Though I have 2 alts currently. On around 5k and another around 1k. So I still have quite the grind ahead of me. As for people starting with far higher power levels than most people. Honestly, I'm gonna agree with you. I've never been a fan of that. But at this point there isn't much that can be changed about something that happened so far back. So some characters, when the site was new had a bit more of a starting advantage than they would if they were starting now. It's not fair, but it is what it is. I guess what my rambling really boils down to is that the system will probably be nerfed and buffed as balance needs to be adjusted and the staff see if it goes to far or not enough. It's a living system, and that I understand what it's like to at the bottom of the totem pole and see people way stronger than you. To disgusting degrees even. I honestly get it. And I suppose what it comes down to is what kind of story you want to tell. If you are willing to be the underdog for a while and work your way to the top, or whatever tier you see Nidus sitting at. At the end of the day to only way to catch up no matter the system is going to be your activity level. You have to fight a lot, do training threads, jump in events, and even approach staff for your own plot stuff. They are generally pretty willing to work with you if you put in the work as well. But I think this is an important discussion to have, and I for one value your input. I hope nothing I said you take as a slight or attack on you. But I'm just speaking as someone who like you came in far below everyone else and seeing people with a boosted starting PL. But I've overcome and passed almost all of them now. So you can do it!
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Post by Nidus Fetch on Apr 7, 2017 18:56:42 GMT -6
It's a grind for sure, but it should be a grind to get to be in the top 5ish on the site. Don't you think? And if you plan to get there simply through weekly training threads, then honestly you won't make it ever because everyone else is going to be getting stronger as well. I absolutely agree with this. This is why I stated I like the site's systems. I think they are perfectly balanced, but that is under the assumption that we all put in the same amount of work. I do not intend to do ONLY training threads, but the fact of the matter is that the strongest person on the site started with thirty-nine weeks worth of them for me. In less extreme cases, I am seeing people who started with 1000-5000ish. This is what makes things discouraging. As for the rest, I do not mind a grind. I do not mind starting at the bottom. Seeing people grow quickly from the same starter power I have is actually encouraging, and promotes a fantastic system of growth. But I see the most massive power spikes coming from systems that do not require work. Some are even as simple as having a friend make an account and never come back.
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Limax
Hermit
I am filled with Determination
Posts: 475
Power Level: 112,360
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Post by Limax on Apr 7, 2017 19:14:48 GMT -6
Well I'm to see that you didn't mean to say you were looking at just training threads to get stronger. I had hoped that wasn't the case, but I thought it worth addressing just to cover my bases on that.
But yeah in about 14 weeks I went from 300 to where I am now. The increase for the recruit a friend has been dropped for the recruited to 10% but stays at 50% for the recruited which I think is far more balanced. And not to say that it hasn't happened, but off the top of my head I can't recall anyone who got a friend to make an account and then they never did anything.
To use myself as an example again because it's who I am best acquainted with. Of the two people I've recruited to the site one stuck around a good month and a half or so. And the other one is still here to this day, with more than one character.
And again, I agree and didn't really like when I saw some people had started with a higher Power Level than I did. I even started my Saiyan (Brocc) when the site first launched (and died) and his was a 300 PL. Just like current day.
Some of the other power spikes that "don't require work" I assume would be the returning player bonus that was put in a mass email to encourage people to return to the site. Then there are the vote reward boosts to celebrate the community working together to promote the site. And the celebration of Dragon Ball's anniversary which granted people a wish, some people wished to be stronger and were given a high % boost in strength since it was a Dragon Wish. Others wished for other things. Mayoko Star being reborn, immortality, etc.
So to try and address those in order.
A lot of sites (from my experience) give perks to people who post ads, recruit people to the board, and other similar measures. It encourages site growth and a chance to better your character and give your friend a small headstart is normally a good way to encourage people who are on the fence to give it a go. As stated above, that one has been adjusted.
The vote bonus rewards if the last one was anything to go off of seems to be switching to a static number increase rather than % based which would actually make it a bigger boon for lower level players than higher level players. To use the most recent one as an example a 660 PL boost is far more significant to a player with 1,000 PL than someone with 100,000 PL. I suspect we will see more things like this in the future as the admin seems to like to reward the site with bonuses to celebrate milestones. So sticking around will grant you those.
And for the Dragon Wish, that's as simple as collecting the Dragon Balls yourself. Which I think only one person has really done, not counting the reward. So if there was something you wanted for your character that would be an option. My character Bana only just found out the Dragon Balls exist (he wasn't created when that perk went out).
You mentioned that you think the current changes to the leveling system are great, but don't believe it does enough. So I'm curious in your opinion as a new comer to the site. What changes would you make that you would deem as satisfactory.
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Post by Nidus Fetch on Apr 7, 2017 20:24:47 GMT -6
Recruitment bonuses, I can and do agree with. But I look through character applications and see "Recruited by:" in some accounts that were created before me and still have no posts. If you have recruited friends and they have stuck around, that is good. I am glad, but there are those who made accounts and left.
Vote rewards I was waiting to see before saying anything about them. I have still not yet seen any for last month, and assume there will not be any or they will simply be delivered later during this month. But if they are static numbers, that will be good. Again, however, I have yet to see this.
As for possible improvements I would suggest, perhaps rising scales on training threads in correlation with character growth? Though this is universal, it allows newer players to grow quicker if they put in effort through more than simply fighting. As it is now, if I do a training thread every week and so do you, I see marginal increases (+150 for the first, then +36, +38, et cetera) whereas you will be seeing growth at a much larger number (more than eight thousand).
Of course, stronger characters will receive more from the same percentages, and that is not something I think is a problem. You have, after all, earned your power level. But it gives newer players the possibility to earn more by investing more time in a training thread.
Perhaps also newbie-specific (or low power level-specific) events? Or if all events are to remain general, perhaps scaling rewards?
Please note that I do not think I should receive more just because I am a newbie, so when I suggest these things it is not to just make my own personal experience better. But I do think that there needs to be something that allows us to catch up more than "get stomped by someone twice as strong as you for 16% PL" because that can and will get old really quick, especially because of starter PL bonuses that I do not think will ever happen again.
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Limax
Hermit
I am filled with Determination
Posts: 475
Power Level: 112,360
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Post by Limax on Apr 7, 2017 20:33:16 GMT -6
Vote rewards I was waiting to see before saying anything about them. I have still not yet seen any for last month, and assume there will not be any or they will simply be delivered later during this month. But if they are static numbers, that will be good. Again, however, I have yet to see this. I'm just gonna guess on this one. But I'd expect the next one to be the next rank up we get as that would put us on page 1 of that searching site. But honestly I'm not sure "when" then the next one will be. Also I'd love to hear you go into more detail on the rising scales for training threads. As it stands right now I've skipped a ton of mine just because it gets boring for me. So I'm totally down to hear any suggestions anyone has on training threads. As for the getting stomped on by someone stronger getting old. I both agree and disagree with that as for me personally it depends on the thread and hopefully there is interesting context or reason behind the fight in and of itself and the interactions would lead to plot and fostering character development. Example: Limax takes on a pupil and trains them and oversees their growth in an attempt to become a mentor of sorts. That can lead to character development for both people involved and interesting character dynamics of story. As opposed to Limax backhands you and nearly kills you because why not. Though I think we both agree on this point pretty much lol. Also I'm a fan of the idea of lower power level events and max caps put on them. Not everything going on in the universe is a cataclysm and it can offer variety. So I'd agree with that suggestion.
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Post by K.I.A | Dahveid Blaze on Apr 7, 2017 22:40:43 GMT -6
I'll try and address the starting boosts as well, since both characters of mine are in the top tier and both started with boosts.
1- Okara. He actually did in fact start at 300 PL. I've fucked up his bio a lot, and his "PL" at the top was how I tracked his growing power. But I had several fights with him plus a recruitment (based on the broken system) which caused him to grow rapidly in just a couple threads.
2- Dahveid was and still is a half quest character. He started with 10,000 PL and a more thorough history than what's on the board as he was originally supposed to be a growth target as well as an instigator. If you've noticed with him, I've brought him into many threads with weaker people where he teaches them, trains them- but most importantly, gives them massive EXP boosts because his PL was so far beyond their own. He's also been driving story in certain directions, like trying to push the Demon storyline, stepping in with Bana to try and push him (though he's been a reluctant asshat.)
The ones to really look to for their growth potential would be Limax, Wasabi, Rhona. These three started weak as fuck and are all in God teir now. The staff have needed to nerf and reconstruct a lot of the growth system because I and a few others am, and always will be, the type to exploit loopholes in order to get them fixed. Did it on 259, 552, Gods bird and many others. If the staff don't see something as broken why fix it? I've also been privy to getting nerfed by staff because I openly state that I exploited it. Okara would have a PL 100,000 points higher were it not for that.
I think the main point I'm trying to make is- don't look at what happened to a few of the oldies in the past who got to use some of that beginners brokenness. Focus instead on the growth curve several people are on, and how despite those starting advantages I may have got, Okara isn't even top 5 and Dahveid is maybe a week from getting passed in power by Limax and maybe even Wasabi.
It's not impossible in my opinion to catch up. Just hard.
As for the training curve I'd be interested to hear more about that too. Done right, it could be an epic steady growth tool.
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Post by Rhona Hall on Apr 7, 2017 22:51:42 GMT -6
Yo! I am open if you ever want some help. I am about mid way on the strong levels but as time progresses things have changed here and even I can say it was not easy. Still is hard to not constantly get my butt whooped, every now and again I get mine. Honestly it is character development as well. I have a character named Kiwi as well she is just starting out and only has one training under her Utility belt but right now I am still getting a feel for her and the growth of things will be pretty epic and you can have a neat story to be enthralled and dedicated to. Hang in there. You always have to start some where
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Post by Vo Lang on Apr 7, 2017 23:22:35 GMT -6
I am also interested to get a new take on training threads. A new point of view or idea is always something I look for. Id like to know your perspective on making trainings better.
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